Marissa Mayer, the woman who became CEO of Yahoo while five months pregnant, made headlines again over the weekend for telling her employees that she was doing away with telecommuting and everyone must learn to come into the office.
The consensus seems to be that this is a huge blow for working parents.
Personally, I think working away from your kids is much easier than trying to get anything done with them right in front of you, but that's me. Nobody should be able to tell another person how they work best.
Every time the question comes up of how to make the workplace more family-friendly, I am conflicted. I want to say that working mothers can compete in the current work environment but I also know there are few examples of this at my old job. I wanted to be the exception, but I was laid off shortly after my first maternity leave and never given the opportunity.
The day after I was let go, I booked a freelance gig, and continued to book them as I looked for full-time work. The freelance allowed us to keep our nanny and I slowly realized the benefits of working for hire, especially since my husband could put me on his insurance.
I have been working freelance for almost three years now. It equates to roughly 70% of the time I spent at a full-time job and pays almost equally. I work from home or at an office, depending on the project, which I am always free to turn down. If I ignore the stress of constantly having to find new jobs, it's a pretty great set-up for a parent.
The biggest drawback is that I no longer feel like I am on a long term career track. And I still wonder every day what would have happened if I never got laid off.
Now I have a three year-old and a three month-old and I have just recently gone back to work for the second time. I took my first at-home freelance job a few weeks ago when Harlow was almost 3 months because I thought working from home would be a good transition to working at an office.
Not exactly.
Even with a nanny, I had a really hard time getting anything done during the day.
If I'm home working while Mazzy is having a tantrum because she doesn't want to eat her lunch and Harlow is crying because she's hungry, I find it impossible not to step in and help out.
If Mazzy is banging on my closed bedroom door while I'm on a conference call, and our nanny is busy putting Harlow down for a nap, it's not only hard to concentrate— it's heartbreaking.
I am constantly telling Mazzy I don't have time to play or praying Harlow won't wake up. I'm hiding in the bedroom with my laptop hoping Mazzy won't remember that I'm there when she gets home from school. I'm running off to work at Starbucks between Harlow's feedings.
Working from home makes me feel like both a terrible worker and a terrible parent.
Last week, my at-home freelance job ended and I started a new freelance job in an office. I can't tell you how much more productive I am while I am there. Not only am I undistracted, but I don't have to feel the sensation of constantly abandoning my children.
If I go away to an office for the day, I feel a little guilty when I leave in the morning and then it's done. If I work at home, I feel guilty every fifteen minutes.
I actually think it's worse for Mazzy to see me at home and know I don't have time for her than to wave goodbye in the morning and welcome me back at 6pm. And from what I can tell, things go more smoothly with the nanny when I am not an option for the girls.
I'm not saying this is the same for everyone but working at home is not the answer for me. The experience made me start thinking about looking for a full-time job again.
But then I had to remember, even though I am in an office, I am not a real employee. As a freelancer, I don't have to show my face first thing in the morning or make sure the higher-ups know I have been working late at night. I'm not expected to travel or go to group brainstorms on the weekend or client dinners instead of spending mealtime with my girls. Nobody questions a mid-day trip to the pedicatrician or my decision to leave promptly at 5pm.
I just have to get the job done.
That should be the most important thing about finding a solution for working parents. Judge them by their work and not by how they get it done. Give them the opportunity to work where they are most effective. If that place is a coffeeshop a few blocks from home so they can avoid a two hour commute that translates to missing bedtime with their kids, so be it. If a mother needs to be there when her kids get home from school but can work twice as efficiently knowing her time is limited, let her.
In my experience, the people who spend the longest hours at the office are not always the people doing the best work. Often, they just don't know how to properly manage their time. If there's anything being a working parent teaches you, it's time management and efficiency.
I don't know what the circumstances were that led Marissa Mayer to her decision.
But I know one of the reasons I got laid off from my old job was because a new person was put in charge who wanted people at the office around the clock. He liked how the office looked at 9pm with everyone still at their desks and believed people worked better together than they did on their own.
Well, that's not true for me.
I am not the vocal person in a group discussion. I am the mother sitting alone at her computer late at night after the kids have finally gone to bed, banging out her best work.
I felt Marrisa’s blank statement was a huge step back for everyone (working parents and non-parents). Sure she has her reasons (some about productivity and some about attrition), either way, I don’t think forcing everyone to work in one particular way is the best for anyone, or any company. I was forced, by my company, to work from home due to space and cost savings to the company. At first I was insulted, but it didn’t bother me as my team was spread out throughout NA and I spent most of my time on conferences calls anyway. Turns out, I am WAY more productive working from home as there is no one stopping by for idle chit chat and I wasn’t wasting 60+min in traffic! However, all productivity goes to hell when family is in town visiting (that’s when I make my way to the office and use a visitor’s station).
Also… it helps that my little one is at daycare.
Being able to work from home has also helped when the little one is home sick. In stead of taking an entire day off, I’m able to do a bit of work here and there throughout the day. So a win win for everyone.
I think you make some good points here, Ilana. What works for one, won’t work for someone else. Especially if you’re in someone’s employ, whether full-time or freelance. Your time is being paid for, and you’re expected to show up at certain hours.
Working at home works for me, because I’m a small business owner. I’m the only person I need to report to, I’m accountable to my clients and my bottom line, I don’t have to worry about anything else. And my clients don’t care if I work in my jammies at my desk at 2am, or if I’m dressed up in a coffee shop at noon. I get time with my kids when they’re awake and around.
I certainly don’t agree with Marisa Mayer, because although I see some of her reasons, I think many won’t even take time to think through why she made that decision. To them, Yahoo is a non-parent friendly company, and that’s all they’ll see. It’s especially hard to swallow for moms because MM IS a mom herself.
I could not agree more about individual working styles and long hours spent at work being no indication of quality work performed.
I’ll never forget working in Tokyo. I worked for a Japanese company – I’d translate resumes to Japanese for them, and assess Japanese candidate’s English and other work skills and then place those candidates for temp/regular work in Western companies. Yeah, a long way of saying a Japanese recruiting company!
In this company, they couldn’t leave until the boss did. So say the boss went out drinking after work and was going to come back to wrap up a letter or pick up his briefcase? EVERYONE HAD TO STAY. That’d be until say, 10pm.
Yes, the Japanese – in all of the companies I worked for in Japan – work crazy long hours but they aren’t WORKING for the most part, and it IS crazy. It’s insane. They give up their life for some ass who reigns like a king at the top.
Anyway.
I’m really happy you have found a space that brings less guilt. I completely know what you are talking about. It sucks!
PS
TYPEPAD?!! I almost feel like that is retro! Is it? I didn’t know it could be so highly customized. You did a great job.
I’m a firm believer that people need to be in the office & nearly applauded Ms. Mayer when I saw the article on CNN.
When I worked from home free lancing for Microsoft, I had the same experience as you – Harry banging on my door while I sat on a conference call & his nanny begging him to come play cars. He’d sob & push toys under the door, begging me to come play while I did Statements of Work. It was horrible & unproductive & while I LOVED being able to toss in a load of laundry while I waited for content or join him for lunch, it wasn’t fair to my career or to Microsoft, who was paying me to be productive.
I’m still free lancing, but in an office setting for 7 hours per day. I’m much better & more productive in the office. Harry’s much happier without me there.
& I prefer it when my coworkers are there. Nothing is more aggravating than trying to reach a coworker when his VPN is down or he’s conjoling a kid while I’m trying to get answers on a scipt. His unproductivity makes me unproductive & therefore the company has TWO unproductive employees.
Big fan of Ms. Mayer. As they say, YOU GO GIRL.
To add, I now work for a company with unlimited sick days & VPN access. They understand when you have to meet the cable guy or your toddler is sick. But they also expect you to be in the office when you can (on a regular basis).
To me, that is the perfect balance of being parent-friendly but also getting your employees at their desks.
State your expectations, put the responsibility on the employees, & let them go if they can’t handle it. In this economy, there is someone who will willingly take their place.
My old job was mostly creative work, hardly any face to face interaction, and it was part time. I’ve been offered it again with the choice of making my own hours but even with good pay, part time doesn’t make sense. i’d have to put my kids in daycare and it’s not worth it to me. I could easily do that job at home. Easily. However, that’s not an option. In this instance, I feel a little bummed about not making extra money and having a creative outlet that doesn’t involve dried macaroni, but at the end of the day I think my former employer is the one missing out. They have to find and train someone else. The employers are the ones missing out on an awesome hiring pool when they are unwilling or unable to comply with the not-so-unreasonable demands of mothers. We often have college educations and I defy anyone to find a better multitasking creative thinker than a mother with three children. Or one child. I mean, we can fashion a diaper out of old socks if we’re stranded at the park. We teach ethics and we have to practice what we preach every day because we have tiny whistle blowers hanging over our shoulder.
I honestly don’t know why the work world doesn’t bend over backwards to keep us!
You rock! As a fellow freelancer and self-employed PR consultant, I couldn’t agree with you more. Kudos on making the decisions that are right for you AND your family, no matter how conventional or unconventional they may seem.
Beth-Ann… although Marisa has herreasons, forcing everyone to work one way is not an ideal solution for a company, let alone a company that is struggling to be competitive. Of course if you are working from home AND your kids are there every day, of course you are not going to be productive! There are lots of people who work from home (while kids are at school, daycare, or have no kids) and they are very productive.
Everyone’s situation is different.
There are many people at Yahoo! who now will have to be spending about the same amount of time in a car, as they will be in the office. Let alone having to leave early due to commute times to pick their kids up at daycare before the center closes, as not all people can afford to live down the street of the Yahoo! office or have a live-in Nanny. Sure, this may weed people out (one of Marisa’s objectives while not having to pay a severance package), BUT that can also weed out some of the top performers.
Absolutely! I don’t see how someone can make an assumption that one solution is the ONLY solution for everyone across the board. I’m a night owl. I work better at home, in the wee hours, when the rest of my family is asleep. I also have no guilt about not being engaged with them during the day. But, I know that doesn’t apply to everyone. This situation really IS a “to each his own” kind of thing, in my opinion.
I’m with you, Ilana – I find it impossible to work when my kids are around. But my girls are in preschool and kindergarten, so when I do need to work I can sneak in the kid-free hours from home, and it’s great to be available to pick them up from school or be here if they’re sick, etc. So that doesn’t work well for everyone? The point is “to each her own” (which is what I heard you saying here). And that’s the disappointing aspect of Mayer’s decision: from what I understand, it sounds utterly hard-lined with no exceptions. As it doesn’t affect me personally, though, I’m just curious to see how it pans out for Yahoo.
Love this, Ilana.
I lost my last job because I couldn’t return to work as soon as planned, and there was no way they were letting me work from home. It’s very hard when people aren’t as understanding as they should be, but sometimes people don’t know because they haven’t experienced it themselves. It’s unfortunate. I give you major kudos for putting your family first. Some parents feel that by putting their job first (for financial reasons) is putting their family first. Mazzy, Harlow, and Mike will thank you for that one day.
I’ve been working from home since May of 2012. It has changed my life. For years I have found it difficult to balance being a good employee with being a good mother. If I’m kicking ass at work, I’m missing out on little league games and valentine’s parties. If I’m making lunches, attending school functions, on top of laundry, and getting my 3 kids everywhere on time – well I’m frazzled and behind at the office. My kids are all school age – so they are gone for my core working hours. I get more items completed during those hours than I ever have at the office. If I’m particulary swamped I can simply close back up in my office after they’ve gone to bed. I don’t have to worry about hiring a Nanny, leaving work for sick kids, making doctors appointments or switching off days with my husband so neither of us are the only ones missing work. All of that stress just 100% gone. I’m cooking dinner at 5:00 rather than 7:00. Seriously, nothing but “change my life” type of stuff going on over here. I understand that not everyone is disciplined enough to work from home. And not every job can function remotely. But to take that away, especially from working parents – from those that can…well, to me it’s a step in the wrong direction for employers.
I realize my work-at-home issues are unique to mothers with very little children. Getting an infant into a daycare facility in Manhattan is beyond impossible. Would you believe we applied to a daycare when I was pregnant with Mazzy and are still on the waiting list? When they get older, it’s easier. Some of my friends have their toddlers in full-time montessori schools as opposed to having a nanny and a part-time preschool program, which obviously makes working from home viable.
Marissa Mayer is doing exactly what my old boss did, which was really upsetting considering I had such a long track record of proving I was very effective while setting my own schedule. That guy ended up getting fired/pushed out. Unfortunately, after I was already gone.
I love this article Ilana, for me it’s so true. I work a full-time job in order to pay half of the bills in my house hold and I’m lucky enough that I love what I do, I’m a senior graphic designer, work 9-6, I drop my little guy at daycare at 8:45 am and pick him up at 5:30 pm. When we get home I do nothing but dedicate all my attention to him, I don’t do laundry or cook dinner, I just show him how much I love him, how much I care for him and tell him that the time that mommy is away from him is for everyones best interest. I’ve experienced times when he is so sick that I need to work from home, and it was way easier when he was an infant, now he is a toddler that requires constant supervision, I’m trying to make an ad and he is climbing on my leg cause he wants to play with my laptop, or screaming while I need to join a Skype conference call, sometimes I need to put him in his crib if I’m in a really tide deadline, it is HORRIBLE and heartbreaking for me, and I feel is not fair for him, for me or for the company I work for. Just like you said I feel like a terrible mom and a terrible employee. I find too that the peace I find in an office allows me to be more productive, and I feel better that my son is in a fun environment at daycare playing with his friends and going outside, without me having to put him on his crib cause I need to take a phone call.
Wonderful post! My career has been in the ad/marketing world too, so I can totally relate. I was so surprised with Marissa’s stance on no-working from home, and disheartened to hear it. I agree that support for working mom means judging them based on the quality of work done, not necessarily the time/environment that it’s done in. I’m blessed to work for a company that supports my working-mommydom 100% (I was hired when I was 7 months prego). The company I was at before this – not so much. Now, I work from home on Fridays, and I feel you re the WFH guilt. But, since I’m at the office the rest of the week, I can plan on being super productive those days (and sometimes nights after bedtime), and know that Friday is more of a maintenance day answering emails and wrapping up loose ends. Having that extra day with her helps me feel like the time we’re apart during the week isn’t so unbearable – and helps us financially as well. I hope that more companies begin to care less about the way it looks to have a full office at 9pm and more about supporting their valued employees (including working moms).
Well said, Ilana. I agree with you and I find your post honest and balanced. Ideally, we’d all find work at home or out of the home that suits our personalities and lifestyles perfectly. It’s not an ideal world.
In the Yahoo! situation, it seems like the policy they’ve been working with (allowing liberal telecommuting) hasn’t been effective for whatever reasons. Anytime the culture of a company changes, it’s difficult because employees (and owners) get used to a certain style.
I think that more important than whether or not people can choose to work from home (which bus drivers, waitresses, teachers, and so on can’t choose to do) is what kinds of policies a company has for parental leave, sick days, insurance options, and flex time.
I work ‘flexibly’ in my job in England as all my colleagues are based in an one office and I am based in another part of the country with the flexibility to work from home or in my nearest office. We tend to all meet up once a week and keep in touch via IM’s, phone and emails and it works really well for everyone. I think, not only do I benefit from being able to get home for dinner and going to appointments, my colleagues also get the best from me because I can choose how to use my time most wisely. I still enjoy coming into the office and getting a lunchbreak (whats one of those usually when you’re a parent!?)but I know that all my colleagues know that if I’m not in an office it’s for a legitimate reason and once i’ve done the nursery run or trip to the doctors, I’ll get be right back online to do the job in hand. As you said, I don’t think one rule works for everyone and in this time of high unemployment rates it’s time employers embraced this rather than pushing against it.
I don’t love Marissa’s blanket statement at all. We all need to find what works best for us and for our family. And every situation is different. Kudos to you. xo
She would have been better off to start her crusade with a few very strict guidelines for work-at-home employees such as “children must have separate child care” or “employees must be available via phone in their home office and email during the hours of 8:30 – 5:30.” This is a topic near and dear to my heart because I started working from home in 2004. I think there is a big difference between freelancing or owning your own business though. I work for a huge company. I do not call the shots. I work 40 hours a week and do not have my kids home with me unless they are sick. Because I am good at drawing the line between “home” and work I can get 40 hours worth of work done in 40 hours. I have co-workers who take advantage of the kindness of our company though.
I recently started teaching one night a week. Yes, I only go in one night, but there is a lot of work to be done between then. when that work is done from home, I feel like I am abandoning them, and when I miss dinner and bedtime that one night a week, I feel like I am abandoning them. It is a horrible feeling.
I do agree that people should be judged on their work, not by how they get done.
Great post!
This is a great post and I completely agree, but as a non-New Yorker, I’m still reeling over the preschool waiting list. No wonder nannies are the thing.
What concerns me is that it is assumed that only parents telecommute. Or benefit from telecommuting. I believe that as a parent working from home is way more cumbersome than going into an ofice, providing the kids are home and your commute reasonable. I think that parents who effectively use it do so when they would normally have to take time off, say when their child is sick. My natural work style and learning style makes working in an offic ineffective at times. I work in short bursts and do excellent work, but then need a distraction. In an office it is generally a person who stopped by to say hi. That is a much longer break than I need to say switch out the laundry or even clean the fridge. If I worked from home, I would gladly add in hours at the end of the day to make up for the breaks, because things would be under control. So I would work with the kids in school, take a break and resume work when the kids were in bed. In certain jbs that really doesn’t matter as that isn’t face to face time anyway. My boss would directly benefit since I would put in more hours and more effective hours. AND I would be happier and be able to work from home even when sick without making others sick.
I no longer work as I’m a stay-at-home mom, but have only been so for less than a year. Prior to that I was an IT Business Analyst that had the ability to telecommute should I need to. I was expected in the office for the most part, but if I needed to work from home, it was a non-issue. Mostly due to my boss knowing that we are responsible adults that can self-manage, while this may not be true for all, it is true for most of us I would hope. Yes, my daughter is now 3 so when I telecommuted it was as available. To be honest though, I was more productive in those 2-4 hours at the house, then I ever was at the 9 hours in the office. Mostly due to other distractions, pointless meetings, birthday celebrations, you name it. I was able to focus once my child was cared for and do my job more efficiently then at the office. Some days I liked going into the office, but others I would have rather been working from the comforts of home. When you work from home you also feel like you HAVE to get work done to justify why you are there, as opposed to being in the office feeling as if you are there so therefore the work can come later…if that even makes sense. This is how it was for me. I work hard no matter where I am b/c of the type of person I am. Forcing people to work in a specific style has no effect, IMO, on their ability to perform said work.
well done, Ilana. Very well done.
My issue with this whole topic is that all anyone is talking about is how it effects women – working from home part time/full time is a man’s issue as well. All this says is that flexibility is not an option. That’s just dumb. A good leader allows for flexibility and individual needs – a happy worker = a productive worker.
I absolutely agree. My son is 14 months old and I could not imagine getting anything accomplished at home without childcare (as some of my friends do), and I would completely be overwhelmed with guilt trying to work from home while my child was there. Your scenario would be mine as well. I spend 2-5 hours in the car a day on my commute to and from work. My son is in daycare and it is awful because we do not have the option to telecommute. I live an hour away from home, so when something comes up, or late work is required, the commute can dictate how much time I get to spend with my son a day. It’s no longer acceptable to me and I am determined to make a different path. I’m happy for you that you have found a working situation that is productive!
I am a part-time, freelance copywriter and work from home. One of my kids is in 1st grade, the other is 4 and goes to daycare two days a week. The other day I have a sitter for her.
Like you, Ilana, I’ve done it both ways – gone to an office as a freelancer and worked from home as a freelancer. If daycare wasn’t an option for me, I’d absolutely want to be in an office. I could never work with my 4yo home all the time. But I’m fortunate enough to have the daycare option.
Either way, I’m horrified by Marissa Mayer’s blanket proclamation. Perhaps she is doing is as a temporary measure in an attempt to turn Yahoo’s fortunes around. But if that is the case, she should have said so. It’s a real step back for working parents. If she’s trying to trim the fat and get rid of unproductive workers, she should have just bit the bullet laid off the slackers.
Yes. Thank you, CK. Well said.
From a personal standpoint, I am in such agreement with you here. I used to think I wanted to be a SAHM, until I realized that I’m simply not cut out for it (and God bless those who are). And then I thought how nice it would be able to be to work from home. But as my daughter gets older and I take on more freelance gigs outside of my full-time job that require me to carve out writing time at home, I realize just how unfeasible that would be. My husband has to literally take her out of the house when I’m on a deadline; otherwise, she’s asking me to play or I feel the need to step in when conflicts arise. And nothing is more heartbreaking to me than hearing her ask me, “Mommy, will you play with me?” and not being able to say yes. At the same time, whenever she and my husband leave on a daddy-daughter date so that I can have time to write, I feel incredibly guilty, like an absentee mom, and worry that I’m letting her childhood pass me by.
That guilt is still there when I drop her off at school in the mornings, but it’s lessened by the fact that a.) I know I have to work my FT job to help pay the bills, and 2.) I know she’s in a healthy, social learning environment at her preschool and she loves it. And that’s what lets me know that an office environment is the right one for me.
That said, I think Marissa Mayer’s decision is a huge step back for telecommuting parents who HAVE been able to make that scenario work for them.
Oh I hear ya about daycares… where we live, most of the licensed daycare centres don’t take children until 18-months! (Parents have to rely on home daycares or live-in nannies from Asia, or day nannies… but for one child, that last option is very expensive). Getting a spot at a daycare center is like winning a lottery! We too were on daycare center lists when the little one was in utero and only got a call from one center when the little one was about to turn two years old!!! We were living in Europe at the time and took the spot (even paid the first few months of daycare while we were still in Europe as there was no guarantee any other spaces would open up). To this day, we still haven’t gotten a call from the other places!! And no… we don’t live in NYC! 🙂
Because my office has not given me the option to work from home (only to work above and beyond my 40 hours per week) on any consistent basis, there have only been a few times when I have been home with my daughter when I needed to get work done. And it is practically impossible for me! I’m glad it can and does work for other moms, but I too feel I’m much more productive in the office. When someone needs something yesterday, I can drop everything and concentrate on what I need to do with hardly any distractions. I told myself recently if I ever DID get a job where I could telecommute, my daughter would still need to be in daycare most of my working hours. Just wanted to say thanks for putting it out there, I’m not the only one!
That is a very important point, CK. One of the reasons we continue to live in Manhattan, despite the school situation and the lack of space, is so my husband and I don’t waste time commuting.
And I definitely agree that one blanket policy is not a modern way of thinking.
It sucks that your former employer won’t try the at-home work situation to see if it works before looking to hire elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to something like graphic design, when there is a visible end product with a deadline. It would be very easy to assess whether the arrangement worked or not.
For whatever reason, I do not feel the guilt when I am at an office but feel terribly guilty at home. I think it’s partly because I feel like I am being a role model for my daughters when I get dressed and go to work. When I am home, I don’t think Mazzy really understands that I am working. She thinks I am ignoring her while playing on my computer in my pajamas.
Well, if my old office is any indication— the guy who decided everyone must be seated at their desks at all times and work in a group rather than brainstorming on their own, eventually got canned. Pretty soon after the round of lay-offs where I was let go.
If I didn’t work, it would be way more difficult to afford our lifestyle in Manhattan. Plus, I could never be a full-time stay-at-home mom. I would go insane. I think if I had never been laid off, I would still have been at my old job and working crazy hours. Giving up my paycheck to work freelance would have felt like way to big of a risk. In that regard, I am happy I had no choice but to see this side of things. Plus, I never would have started Mommy Shorts:)
If working at home is what makes you a better employee than absolutely you should be allowed to do it. It’s way different than what I described when your house is empty during the day!
Really loved this post. As a creative professional, I feel like it’s impossible to really let your imagination flow when you’ve got strict “hours” of operation…
“Judge them by their work and not by how they get it done. Give them the opportunity to work where they are most effective.”
Amen, sister.
My job is similar to yours and there is no way to coast your way through it- I need to come up with campaign concepts, execute them and then present them.
What I ended up doing with that at-home freelance job was sharing an ‘office space’ with a friend of mine that was in a similar situation. We arranged to use her friend’s studio apartment during the day while he was at work. It was the only way to get the job done while still having a place to pump— you can’t do that at Starbucks!
Best sentence: judge them by their work, not by how they get it done. I have not been a fan of Marissa Mayer’s since she marginalized the importance of maternity leave. She had an excellent platform to be a working women’s advocate for the importance of leave and the minimal standards we have in our country, but she did the opposite. As a mother, I would never work for her and I think her latest decision is going to greatly hurt Yahoo!.
Yes! Can you believe my old boss thought we needed to be at our desks to be productive at an advertising agency? When I am at my desk, that usually means, I am not working. The guy in charge before him used to tell us to work wherever we found inspiration. Nobody ever took advantage that I am aware of. We all wanted him to love our work.
I agree about the daddy-daughter time. I always felt like I needed to be present at all times until I realized Mike wanted it and I was getting in the way. Harlow is actually a big reason why we have been forced to split our time more. Although, even though it’s for my other child, I still feel guilty for not being with Mazzy.
I wasn’t surprised by Mayer’s decision only because that was exactly what I experienced at my old job. I am so glad there are companies out there that will still hire someone at 7mos pregnant— I lost a lot of faith in American corporate culture after my lay-off.
Flextime would be a huge advantage to working mothers. As a freelancer, I absolutely cannot work between the hours of 6pm and 8pm and I must leave close to 5pm to relieve the nanny. But I almost always work after the kids go to bed.
In the few months I had a full-time job after I had Mazzy, I tried to juggle pediatrician appointments, pumping and getting home in time to relieve the nanny in a way that nobody would notice the difference at work. I even paid for my mother and Mazzy to come with me on a ten day international business trip so I could continue breastfeeding while still doing my job. But maybe that’s because my only examples of successful people at my company were men and women with no children. You are right— Marissa had the opportunity to be that example and she blew it.
Totally different. It’s extremley difficult wearing the employee hat and the mom hat at the same time – I would not be succesful with toddlers and babies. Now though, I would be devastated if my employer required me to come back to the office. With everyone’s lifestyles so different, it’s hard enough to believe there are employers who aren’t embracing flexibility in the office. And now employers who are REMOVING flexible work arrangements. It’s shocking.
Beautifully said. I wish people could be given the option, when possible, to work in whatever way they’re most productive and can find the best work/family balance. As long as you’re getting your job done, that’s all that should really matter.
I think the option is great! My husband actually telecommutes when he is not in busy season. He works in finance. Luckily we have a great setup where his home office is in the “guest house” A small one room back house in the yard. It is just separated enough that he can be productive and not worry about kids being loud, and close enough that he can have lunch with us, and dinner with us, save the long 2 hour daily commute, and yes he is very productive. He does actually work for probably longer (since no commute) than when he is in the office. As with most things parent related, each circumstance is different, and it should be about what works best for each employee. A good manager knows how to assess her people well, and determine how each one works most effectively.
Probably a day late and dollar short, but here is my two cents anyway: My work used to have flexbility (within reason) built into the work day, and employees were happy. We normally worked set hours in a day (9-5pm idea) but could earn time either through coming in early, leaving late or shorter lunches; either of our own accord if we just worked through or out of necessity of time-sensitive tasks. Then the powers that be decided that people were taking advantage, the system was flawed and that everyone must now work 9am-5pm. Period.
And what happened? Did the lazy people suddenly become productive? No. Did the people taking advantage suddenly grow a conscience? No. Did the masses who had been using the flexiblity as it was intended feel like they were being punished for the crimes of a few? Yes. Did the productivity and efficiency overall, not to mention workplace morale become negatively affected? Of course. Did the clients suffer as a result of this? How could they not? Where we used to have no problem volunteering to work through lunches, see extra clients, turn on our computers at home once kids were in bed to squeeze in another hour or so of charting, we now say no – we work 9am-5pm as per your decree – and we are a lot less productive overall. Not everything and every work situation fits into a neatly tied box.
It has even gotten to the point that not only are we told we are not to be accumulating flex time, but even if we have a legitmate need for it to occur, due to the nature of the work, we are being told we would be disciplined for that. I work in the health care industry, this is obviously an exaggeration but to highlight the ridiculousness of the situation, picture a labouring woman at 8cm being told “Oh! Sorry! We can’t work past 5pm. Please clench and hold until 9am tomorrow! Thankssomuch!”
In juxtaposition to this my husband’s boss is fine with him going to work late or leaving early, staying home with the kids (or dog) when they are sick, taking an 1.5-2 hour lunch, going to a movie with his wife during the workday without claiming a vacation day … but that is because he knows my husband usually shows up early and leaves late; he not only works when home with sick kids/animals (rather than being forced to use a vacation or sick day from his bank but then also not working as is having to use banked time off) but also once they are in bed he works late into the night; he normally takes a short lunch or none at all; and he always takes far less vacation days in a year than he is alloted – plus usually handles pressing business calls emails even when on vacation.
Or in other words: he is treated like a mature, responsible adult so in turn acts like a mature responsible adult. Fancy that, huh? Everyone feels like they are being respected, everyone feels like they have the better deal.
So in summary – while I, who has compared trying to get housework let alone any other type of work when home with kids to like being having constant ADD – can appreciate the concern when employees are being trusted to telecommute, work from home, or given other flexible work arrangements – I just can’t agree that having set in stone inflexible rules is the way to go.
As a woman, a mother, an employee, a professional, an adult, I highly dislike her blanket statement approach.
On the other hand, as someone who never used Yahoo to begin with, not to mention as someone who owns Google shares – I couldn’t be happier! 😉
What an honest post, supporting all types of working moms! At first I reacted to the employees’ reaction that they were surprised a working mother would make her employees come into the office, as if all working mothers would want to work-at-home. But then I heard more of their reactions, and this post, and see the other side. People joined Yahoo for flexibility, and now won’t be able to get it. A really big bait and switch! Perhaps she thinks this is the solution to Yahoo’s economic troubles. Nevertheless, again, great post in support of working mothers, no matter how she does it. Personally, the only work I could do at-home is housework, playing, and napping. And me working after-hours? No way! Haha.
I needed this today! Thanks for sharing, Ilana. We’re all doing the best we can!
As promised, I am here to comment now that my kids are in bed and everyone else has moved on!
When my first was born, I was working at a large contracting company. I had an office, but most of my work was with people on the opposite coast, so no one cared AT ALL if I showed up to the office. When I was coming back from maternity leave, they all assumed I’d want to work from home. The ones who were parents assumed I’d have in home help. The others had some cute idea about babies sleeping all day, except for when they were awake looking quietly cute on a play mat. (This delusion is how humans are convinced to reproduce, so I don’t enlighten them.)
I told them they were all insane and came back to the office. I lived in a small apartment at the time. My daughter would have smelled me and demanded me, because that’s the type of baby she was, and that was abundantly clear to me by the time I was going back to work (she was 3 months old when I went back part time, 4 months old when I went back full time).
But, I know that my situation is not the same as everyone else’s situation. I’m told that some people’s babies really do sleep all the time. Now that my oldest is in Kindergarten, I can also see how it would be possible to work from home with her present and actually produce some work.
So as a manager, I take each person’s situation individually. Some people (and some jobs) are excellent candidates for working from home. There is one person who reports to me whom I rarely see in person, and she does incredible work and I would throw a tantrum worthy of my 3 year old if she ever tried to leave. I have other people who work remotely most of the time but come into the office for meetings one or two days per week. My own job, though? Nah, I have to be in the office for the gazillion meetings I attend every single day (why did I go into management again?) and to be available for the other employees I have who need face time with me. I could maybe swing a one day per week at home arrangement (and I would be super productive- I’m good at internal motivation) but the hassle of setting that up doesn’t seem worth it, particularly since I need to pick my younger daughter up from a day care 5 minutes away from my office.
So I’m disappointed in the blanket policy. I think it is short-sighted and lets managers get away with being poor managers. I think that if some people were not performing as remote workers, their managers should have fixed that IMMEDIATELY. I know it sucks to call people out on this sort of thing, but that is why you are the manager. You have to do this stuff. Grow up and do it.
But- Yahoo’s policy is hardly unique, even in the tech world, so I don’t think it deserves the fuss it is getting. And there are plenty of tech companies with more enlightened policies, and they are using this as a recruiting opportunity. Etsy, for instance. (Which makes the third really impressive thing I’ve heard about Etsy recently. It is a shame my skills are in science informatics and not shopping informatics, or I would totally look at them as an employer.) The thing is, it is damned hard to find good tech talent and I think any of Yahoo’s remote workers who are really good will be able to find a company that will let them continue with their remote arrangement. The ones who aren’t good… well, they will either raise their game or suffer the consequences.
As for the freelancing thing not feeling like a career path- I have a veritable army of freelancers working for me, although we call them contractors in my world. And some of them are just biding time between full time jobs (for a variety of reasons), but not all of them. Some of them have some pretty awesome careers, as well as some pretty awesome work-life arrangements. Frankly, I’m jealous of some of them and keep toying with the idea of trying to join their ranks!
Your sixth paragraph makes me both want to work for you, work with you, and be your new best friend. I shall refrain from listing the third thing on my resume, if you refrain from noticing I have none of the technical skills you are looking for but will still hire me because me liking paragraph six proves I am not a douche. Deal? 😉
Thank you for noticing and understanding my line about freelance not feeling like a career path. That is a really big deal to me. I really was considered a rising star at my previous company. I was even chosen as one of 25 people from around the world (it was a huge global company) as a future leader of the agency when I was 2 months pregnant, before I had told anybody. And I won a global initiative to come up with the most innovative new idea for the company a month before I was laid off. Something I worked on while I was on maternity leave. I WAS FLOORED when they let me go. The only thing I could come up with (besides being a new mother) was that the new head of the NY office was not communicating with global and didn’t know or care about my track record.
I spent my whole career at one place doing mostly traditional advertising (print, outdoor, commercials) and was a senior vice president when I was let go, which made it really hard to find a similar position elsewhere.
Also, with freelance, usually I am coming up with ideas, but if it gets sold then they produce it without me. It’s hard to build your portfolio when you are not seeing things through. Plus, production was always the fun glamourous part of the job. It’s still hard for me to reconcile that I am not that person anymore.
It’s probably why I channel so much of my creativity and ambition on this blog.
I have a dear friend who was laid off when she was pregnant – and after the understandable period of stress and uncertainty, she ended up starting her own company and is now also getting an MBA – while raising her three kids (she had been pregnant with her third!). She had also been an amazing employee and her company was a total asshat for letting her go – totally their loss! She is now thriving, loving her work/life balance, still working her tail off but in things she truly enjoys, and works for the best employer – herself! Her work is contract work too, so similar to yours as gets hired temporarily by different agencies but never a guarantee of work. But she is smart, she is ambitious, she is talented, she is motivated, she is driven – and she is so happy with her work/life balance. Rather than get beaten down, she used the opportunity to rise up and do even better in life.
She is inspiring.
And she totally reminds me of you!
I, on the other hand, am stuck in a dead-end job that does not offer the best work/life balance other than at least I can work part-time – which causes financial stress, but if I worked full-time would be a lot more life stress. It is not motivating, not intellectually challenging, not creative, and very driven by policies as opposed to employee talent – but my hands are tied by the proverbial golden handcuffs as even with it being part-time it is still a better gig than full-time somewhere else. I am sure someone would say “So you don’t like it? Just leave!” But you know – life isn’t always that black and white nor that easy.
Sometimes though I do dream – I dream about NOT having the choice and being forced to leave – as like a bird trapped in a beautiful but deadly cage, I can feel my wings aching to expand yet the sky continues to remain JUST out of reach, as I can’t quite justify not remaining in the place where the birdseed is bland but guarenteed for the exchange of living off the bounty of the unpredictable land – not matter how luscious the fruit. But sometimes how I wish that someone would just come and shake that cage upside down until I am forced out …
At the risk of sounding anti-feminist, I’m kinda with Beth-Anne on this one. In case people aren’t aware, Yahoo has not been doing well as a company, especially since the rise of Google. They’ve been losing a ton of marketshare (remember when Yahoo! was the go-to search engine? How many of you still use it to search today?), and they’re in the news typically for their company losses & layoffs. So part of the circumstances that likely led to this decision was the fact that the company is at a make-or-break point, and having way too many people take advantage of what’s meant to be a perk & an act of good faith by management, could put the jobs of EVERYONE in the company at risk.
I think we often forget that taking a job with a company is a sort of contract — employees agree to provide a service to the company, in exchange for a salary and an agreed-upon list of benefits. I think a lot of companies try to be flexible and allow for as much of a work-life balance as possible, including telecommuting, but to me, that is a privelidge that has to be respected and not abused. And it is certainly not a company obligation. If the vast majority of the employees who are tellecommuting are slacking off and not providing the services that they promised, then they either don’t deserve that priviledge or need to be let go.
Should it be all-or-nothing, and should everyone be judged based on the employees who were abusing the privelidge? Probably not. But how exactly do you fix this problem at a huge company-wide level? Can you imagine if she had tried to fire all of the unproductive telecommuters and then someone realized that most of them were working mothers? She’d be sued in a second. So I can kinda understand this as a way to sort of “reset the clock”. Remember, establishing a company policy doesn’t mean that exceptions can’t be made. I know in my former job (in the technology industry), it was expected for everyone to be in the office, but for employees who had earned trust through hard work & responsibility — exceptions were made. But you had to EARN it, and you had to show that it was a mutually beneficial arrangement. If at any time, it was determined that it was no longer working, then that privelidge was revoked. Hopefully that is the model that they will follow at Yahoo in the months & years to come.
My idea of feminism is that we, as women, have the freedom to make choices & prioritize our lives as we see fit, the same as men do. Double standards may always exist, but if I am working, I have to be able to meet the expectations set between me and my boss. For me, I had to adjust the expectations slightly. After my daughter was born, I took on less responsibility. With that came less raises/bonuses, less prestigous projects, etc. But I left at 5:30 each day to pick up my daughter, I took her to the doctor when she was sick, and I rarely worked nights and weekends. But when push comes to shove, I still had to get my work done because I agreed to it just like everyone else.
I think if she had done that, everyone would have cried discrimination because a lot of those people WOULD have been working parents. I wrote in my response above, I think setting the general rule to be “no telecommuting”, but allow exceptions based on specific employees who have earned the trust to do so, is probably the best way to reign in a productivity problem.
Beth Anne,
I think you make some good points here, and I really appreciate your support for Marisa Mayer. We all gotta support each other, regardless of what choices we each make!
However, the reality is that many full time employees don’t have the flexibility you enjoy as a free lancer. I am required to be in the office at least 8.5 hours a day (and I can’t leave early if I work through lunch) I have a set number of sick days (and I am not allowed to work from home on those days if it my daughter that is sick) I also don’t have flexibility in my schedule–it is 8:30 to 5 or bust. All that said, I think that I am fairly lucky in the benefits that I do have and I am grateful that I have a job.
I have no problem with limiting working from home, but I think that companies will only retain their best, most talented, employees if they give a degree of flexibility to them. The ability to leave works both ways –I wonder if Yahoo will see good employees departing for more flexible options!
I work from home as a free lance writer and blogger and have a difficult time many days balancing parenting and work. I often carry the guilt of not playing enough with my child or feeling like i’m a bad parent and then when I’m an attentive parent, I feel like I didn’t get enough done. Still working on finding balance. It seems my best work is done in the two hours I’m awake before my child is.
I work from home most days because I have a longer commute to the office. However, I do go to the office to participate in office life and build research collaborations. (So I understand Mayer’s decision.) My husband and I started out sending our daughter to daycare 3 days a week, at 4 months old, thinking I would be able to work and take care of her on the 2 days she was home. At 4 months old she needed a lot more attention than we thought (we’re new). So we transitioned her to 5 day a week daycare. We considered a nanny, but I knew with me working from home, I would still want and feel like I would need to be in the middle of caring for her. I am productive at home because she isn’t there and can go to the office as needed, which is great for my career. It is difficult balance and I want to make the most of the time we are together, so I feel like the time we are together in the evening is pretty special. She is getting my full attention during that time. So that is what is working best for us.
Agreed!
Agreed! And I think this is what makes the idea of a blanket policy so tough. There are so many different jobs–even at one company. Some occupations are well suited to flexibility, some absolutely aren’t. But if there are supportive parental policies as you note, then that may trump the work from home debate.
YES!
I think you have a good point that it depends on the job and the type of work. My job required an immense amount of communication and availability to problem-solve with colleagues & customers, and so it was different than someone who could sit quietly at a desk (at home or at the office) and get everything done.
I’m sure Yahoo! will lose some good employees over this, but they also might reign in on the productivity of the rest of the employees in a way that makes it worth it. Time will tell, I guess. Great companies have a culture that respects their employees & their work-life balance, but the employees likewise have to respect their responsibilities towards the company or else everyone loses.
I just find it hard to believe that Marissa Mayer made this decision to intentionally hurt or “set back” working moms.
Noise reducing headphones do help when working from home :), but that’s a luxury I have as an editor. Loving what you do and being good at it, that’s what your kids see in you. As hard as it is to leave my boys every morning, the reward I get every day when I return is priceless. Even the Au Pair, and Husband are thrilled to see me because all I want is my screaming kids all to myself 🙂
This: That should be the most important thing about finding a solution for working parents. Judge them by their work and not by how they get it done. – See more at: https://www.mommyshorts.com/2013/02/going-back-to-work.html#sthash.0mx64dPB.dpuf
that is it exactly! You sound like you could have written the blog while in my head. Great blog and maybe one day people will focus on the actual work done, and not the look of the person putting in the hours to get it done. Mechanics and auto body workers do it.
First of all, I love your blog. I’ve never been much of a blog-reading person but I found it while I was pregnant and got caught up. I am currently catching up with all of it and recently been reading the posts about going back to work and being a career person…
I can relate to your situation. I was also laid off shortly after I returned from maternity leave and it has been difficult mainly because we need the double income, although on the bright side, I got some more full-time-mom experience with my now 3M baby. I’m mexican and by law here, you get to leave 42 days before due date and return 42 days after the baby is born. I both need and love to work and during pregnancy I worked on convincing myself that it was ok, that I would not be the first working mom in the world, nor the last. My little girl will appreciate the fact that her mom does both (I hope) and is all for her own good and our family (I really really hope she sees it that way some day).
I didn’t have the time to fully develop the “guilt” of going back to work and leaving baby with my mom or in daycare, but I think it will happen, as much as I prepared myself against it, it will happen at some point, it’s inevitable. And it happens both ways I think. Most of my friends with kids became stay-at-home-moms and sometimes some of them tell me they wish they had something else to do besides taking care of the kids, so it’s not guilt but it’s the same the-grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side kinda feeling…
I am looking for a permanent job and hoping to get one soon (cause it’s hard with only one income, plus baby and all the extra costs that she implies). Sometimes I think, maybe if I didn’t NEED to work because of the money, maybe I would consider taking some time off, but the reality is that I can’t do that right now.
As for the working at home, thing, I am a graphic designer and people just think that it’s so easy to work at home as a freelancer but I agree with you, I am an office person, I can’t get anything done at home…
I will try to catch up with you blog before I get a job and have less time, but I totally relate to your line of thinking, and it’s nice to know I’m not the only one going through this dilemma, specially since every time I think about it over an over again, I always get to the same conclusion: I will be a working mom and I will make the best of it and I will be awesome at it.
Sorry for the long post…
Well said. I love this.
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